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Joyus, or others who would like to respond:
Having talked some with EmptyCloud about coming Earth Changes, and gotten an email from another Costa Rican Community that said they just had their infrastructure wiped out by Hurricane Stan, I am wondering about the safety of living in Costa Rica. Do you feel that the HOME land is situated in a safe area? Do you believe that the Earth CHanges and 2012 prophesies about such changes will come to pass - and if so, do you think Costa Rica will be a safe haven - do you have any plans to prepare for such changes?
Sincerely,
Jeremy
Having talked some with EmptyCloud about coming Earth Changes, and gotten an email from another Costa Rican Community that said they just had their infrastructure wiped out by Hurricane Stan, I am wondering about the safety of living in Costa Rica. Do you feel that the HOME land is situated in a safe area? Do you believe that the Earth CHanges and 2012 prophesies about such changes will come to pass - and if so, do you think Costa Rica will be a safe haven - do you have any plans to prepare for such changes?
Sincerely,
Jeremy
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Re: Earth Changes
Tue, October 25, 2005 - 3:00 PMJeremy, where is this wiped out community and what was it called?
I have lived in Costa Rica for some 40 years and can tell you that it has never been hit by a hurrican. It often gets some heavy rains as a byproduct of hurricans doing their destructive thing in countries to the north but Costa Rica lies south of the hurrican belt.
As for earth changes, many of us have discussed the seeming oncoming cyclic planetary changes with man made climate changes on top of them. It is scary but the US is in far more danger than is Costa Rica. Our area is supposed to get a little drier and windier, which we can live with. Why does the image of a person standing on the deck of the Titanic, laughing at the people trusting their lives to those tiny bobbing lifeboats, come to mind? -
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Re: Earth Changes
Wed, October 26, 2005 - 2:29 PMThe community hit is Paradise Valley - www.nowinparadise.com - and when I talked with him, he still hadn't arrived and was speculating about the damage done by Hurricane Stan.
Earthcloud mentioned to me the fact that Costa Rica has many volcanoes that might be an issue in the future, and it might be a good bet to create some shelter at higher elevation to survive the changes.
As to Joyus' message, I believe as individuals we do have the ability to affect reality, but not to completely override the aggregate effects of all other factors - i.e. we each are only partial factors in the whole of reality, and thus have limited - though real - power. This is similar to your understanding, as you have expressed to me, that we are 'already too late' in terms of reverting Western civilization onto a sustainable path. If we accept that this is so, and want to be in a position to ride out the coming crisis after the 'ancient sunlight' is gone, we do something like move to a community where we can live sustainably. And if we believe that earth changes are to occur due to certain scientific/spiritual laws of cause and effect, and want to protect ourselves because we believe there is a spiritual purpose for us to continue human life on Earth, then there are similar precautions that we may take.
I do not know if Costa Rica is to be affected any more or less by these prophesies of natural disaster, but I do give them some credence only because there are very similar prophecies given by various elders from indigenous tribes throughout the world. I don't think they are acting out of fear, but rather acting out of love - trying to create understanding, and spread knowlege about what is to happen and how to respond in a healthy way.
Having said that, what do you think is the most healthy way to respond to these messages of wisdom from tribal elders who have all felt compelled to share their wisdom?
Jeremy
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Re: Earth Changes
Wed, October 26, 2005 - 2:49 PMI just wanted to add that I feel that contrary to holding an attitude of worry, I feel elated at the possibility of such earth changes, and the potential to refresh our culture that such changes may offer. If they are to become reality, I would be honored and excited to do my part in the work of a)surviving the crisis, and b)building a peaceful, more holistic culture post-crisis
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Re: Earth Changes
Wed, October 26, 2005 - 3:59 PMThanks, Jeremy,
The community is land and not a built up community as yet.
Yes, we have volcanos, three active ones within spitting distance of San Jose! I have stood on the lip of the crater of Irazu while it was in full erruption! I not only survived this act (I was young & stupid!) but really got to know a volcano!
Costa Rica is in the ring of fire, as is part of the US. Don't get hung up on these things or you will spend your time cowering in a shelter rather than out living free.
I once spoke of these things with a Mayan elder from Guatemala. The 2012 prophecy comes from the ancient Mayans, possibly carried over from the older culture of Atlantis which seems to have originated the Mayans. Anyway, he said that, due to variations in the Gregorian calendar, no one knows exactly when these changes will start. The 2012 estimate is just an estimate and the actual date could be five years either way. In other words it could start as early as 2007 or as late as 2017.
We don't really know if we are "already too late" to revert Western Civilization into a sustainable path, although it certainly appears that way. Maybe the ones taking a sustainable path are the ones "meant" to survive and the rest is just floss, to be discarded!
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Re: Earth Changes
Tue, October 25, 2005 - 4:27 PMI just want to repeat the saying about worring...
When we worry, we are praying to create the exact thing we fear...
this in mind... PLANT TREES!!!
And mently prepair for your body to fall like a leaf at the end of its service...
And, Nothing!!! -
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Re: Earth Changes
Tue, October 25, 2005 - 4:55 PMFine, Joyus,
But it's not my body I'm worried about, it's me, my mind. In theory, the mind should never reach "the end of its service". -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 9:47 AMdo you really think you are your mind?
were you still you before you could think in english?
Would you still be you if you lost your capacities to think?
What is built up must be destroyed... All that has a begining will have an end... The Mind falls into these catagories of Time and Space... And yes once the mind falls away You Will still Be... That part of you that does not change Is What you Are... Beyond Mind, body, desires and fears... That which sees all come and go... The whitness the sence of I AM...
JoyUs -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 12:03 PMJoyus, I hear your point about worry. Do you see the value, nevertheless, in acting out of love, in a wise, planned, calculated manner, to bring some part of humanity through such a tumultuous time if it is to occur? -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 12:18 PMI only respond as such to bring the conversation to a level of Truth...
All Value is placed by the mind... The mind is not capable of understaning much further than a language of different sounds with different agreedapon meanings... Let alone Deeper concepts of Truth, Love, Wisdom, and devine Will... To asuume the mind has Real value desplays ignorance... Without going beyond the mind one is subject to the fears and desires of the mind and its attempt to fuffill and escape them...
That which pleases you holds you holds you back...
Desires fuffilled, Breed more Desires!!!
Desirelessness, The Highest Bliss!!!
Who Am I, beyond the change?
Contemplate these things then Go Beyond the Mind...
p.s. all of humanity and all of life on the planet will one day be gone... it is inevetable... the number of days it extists matters only to the scared mind... GO Beyond...
And, Plant Trees....
Yea!!! -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 12:34 PMSo why even plant trees at all? How do you decide what to do and what not to do? What path to follow? Do you mean to say you should reject all motivating ideas, or only those that do not come from a particular place? If so, what place should those motivators come from?
Sincerely,
Jeremy -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 12:50 PMIf you think that the "you" you are talking about makes decisions, inquire deeper... Choices and decisions happen with the thoughts and feelings in endless succession... Apon sincer inquiry one will see that there is no real control to be had of the mind... if you doubt this tell your mind that you want it to stop thinking, analizing, fantasizing for 2 minutes, or heck 20 minutes... and see if there is suffecient control for 10 seconds...
If you cannot stop your mind what makes you think that you have any control to steer it? Just because it seems that way, is not a good enough answer... Inquire deeper...
Being disinterested in the mind, it may ramble as usual, but you will be uneffected... try it, its hard.... try not to regect the mind, that is effort... try to just let the flow happen without effort of any kind, disintrest in every aspect of the minds curiousity is the key...
Try to open the door with this key and report back as to your experience...
Desirelessness is the Highest Bliss!!!
Try it... and report back... -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 1:26 PMI have done such an exercise before - I have found that with meditation practices, kundalini yoga, diet, etc., that I am able to either lessen the numbers of thoughts, or alter their qualities and character. My understanding is that the purpose of meditation and yoga (from the study of it's philosophy and the actual practice) is to bring the mind ever more under the control of the spiritual force, as opposed to the instinctual force - so that the ideas are fueled by one instead of the other - i.e. that the mind is a useful tool which can be used by different forces.
At this point, I would very much like to know what you are suggesting that I/you ought to use to make decisions - if you are in favor of planting trees but not in favor of other actions regarding survival - how is it you came to that conclusion? It seems that you frown on deliberate actions geared toward survival and I wonder why. I also wonder how the planting of trees is distinct from such actions of survival. I hope you do not take offense at my questions - I am a seeker and full of questions and would like to understand the seeming incongruities you have presented.
In Love
Jeremy -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 1:34 PMTo give feedback more specifically regarding your exercise - when having got into such a state, I have felt a lightness and a feeling that nothing matters in an ultimate sense - that things can occur in any manner and I am still untouchable, in a sense. And yet, I still am alive and still must make choices - and so the question remains to you, my friend - what criteria are you using for judging as positive or negative the choices to continue survival, or planting trees, etc.? -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 2:02 PMAh Joyus, that I am more than my mind? My mind can both instruct me to plant trees as well as to uproot them. Lucky for nature, I am of a mind to plant more than uproot! Can I turn my mind off? Yes, with certain substances. Do I want to? No! At least not permanently for that is death.
Squat and breath in and out very strongly three times. Stand suddenly, put your thumb in your mouth and blow out very strongly with out letting any air escape. This will turn your mind off, but not permanently. Have someone behind you to catch you! In 15 or 20 seconds, your mind will turn on again automatically.
A question, Joyus- Who owns the land that you are starting your community on? -
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Re: Earth Changes
Thu, October 27, 2005 - 11:54 PMHI Jeremy
I believe it wise to prepare ourselves
as best we can for the coming times
This means preparation for earthquake, volcanos
tsunami...whatever the area you live in might
be susceptable to
but also for ASCENSION
But do we even know how to prepare for that?
I suggest awareness practice...
Our level of consciousness,
which is the awareness of being aware
is approaching lift off...
I have an emergency pak ready by the front door
but I live on a small island
so it wont likely get me too far....
I had a vision a little while ago
of me standing in the woods
with my little pak on
and looking up into the sky
as it opened in a great slice of red
I began laughing joyously at the sight
and at the ridiculousness
or being totally unprepared for such an event
If you prepare emergency paks
ask yourself if you are packing it with fear and worry
or the joy needed to help you get through
the physical chaos that may come
into the non-physical bliss that awaits,,,
or more likely, a beautiful union
of the two.
We are on a schedule here
Humans are blips on the earth
and the Earth is a blip in the Universe
but that doesnt mean we dont have impact.
Do what feels right for you
Plant a tree or cut one down...
But really connect with the WHY of it
How it makes you feel?
The "mess' we have made for ourselves
is part of a bigger picture
Destruction is necessary for Creation
and creation is birthed
through chaos.
in deliberate co-creation
Neith -
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Re: Earth Changes
Sun, October 30, 2005 - 4:59 PMThat is a great response Neith, good to know some will be ready. I hope it isn't the end to photography, but whatever the case it's starting to get exciting. And awareness like you said is what we all need to develop no matter where we might be physicaly. There is nowhere to consider safe and some spots are risky bets considering climate changes. Community with co-operation will be the key to the future survival of us all.
Jeremy, you have pursued some challenging thoughts and questions. Perhaps it would be you that assists in the preperations at H.O.M.E if it is what you trust to be your path. Remember to look no further than your self for a leader and all will be well. Exploring these possibilities prepare us all for "lift-off" as Neith put it. I hope Joyous Pedro see's your loving nature and responds with same though he may not care to prepare, but to just live in the moment, which he chooses to fill by planting trees. There is Peace in that sense of letting go of care, come what may. As a landscape gardener I can relate to the high. But I am also preparing survival kits. Crazy Times these Be...e -
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Re: Earth Changes
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 9:27 AMI Am!!! this I Know!!! all else is shifting changing, begining and ending... Am I these shifts in openions, concerns,, fears,,, desires? I watch these things come and go... My personality changes, i become more patient and then maybe a little rightous followed by sad and depressed at the state of the world and then this, and that, and this, and that, and this, and that... In the moment my openions seem real but soon they change... Are they Who I Am? I think not... Am I this changing personality? come on get Real!!! that which is Real does not change... the sence that I exist is allways Present... it is the same feeling i rember having when i was a small boy all the way to this moment... I Exist...
As far as tree planting goes, (which by the way i had to kill many many other plants to plant one tree that will serve a purpose)
In my past i have filled my brain with all kinds of yogic sciences, earth sciences and human psychological sciences... I have studied ecopsychology and know the hardships that our spiecies is facing and may not survive from, comming soon... So I have been on a path to study sustainability, community dynamics, permaculture, yoga, improvasational dance and more... I thought i was my personality and that my desires were real... I wanted to live in a sustainable community of loving artists, doing all kinds of work to save the world... I felt that untill i fufilled these desires that i would not truly be fufilled... But then i was Awakened to the truth threw the words of Sri Nisragadatta Maharaj... and his words helped me find Truth within myself... He helped me see my True Identity... That place of pure awarness that is uneffected by the commings and goings of desires and fears... He told me to step between the thoughts as you step between people when you walk down a buisy street... Dont bump into each one and have lengthy interactions... You wont make it Where you are trying to go, Freedom... And i did, now i see my desires as equelly distructive to Truth as Fears were in my past... I used to be afraid when swimming in swimming pools that the drain was going to open and sharks were going to come out and eat me... This is and example of how fears creat illusionary reailty... Well, now I see all my desires in the same light... If I invest myself in these desires to the point where i am concerned and affected by results, I am living in a world of my own creation, not Truth as It Is!!! do we want conditional happieness and peace fufilled only when we susceed in fufilling our desires, or do we want to step out of the whole illusion and come to infinate peace and the Bliss that is not conditional to the world? Unconditional...
If you take a real look at the problems people face interpersonaly they all come down to conflicting openions and expectations, in the persuit of desires, or in running from fear... Thus from My perspective, the one of pure witness, all personal and interpersonal problems stem from mistaken identity... Believing that we are our personalities, our desires, our memory of past and hopes for the future is the fundamentle mistake causing all kinds of messes...
What is curious is that even though i am no longer afraid of what humanity is facing and no longer righthously persuing an external goal, I am still doing the work of planting trees and moving full force into sustainability... the only difference is that i have no expectations or fears regarding how it all plays out... And when one can let go of expectaions while working twards something, a force steps in to help that is infinatly stronger than the personality and all its rightousness could ever be...
Merge with this force, and be not affected by the fruits of actions, and All that Is will continue to Be,, Just As It Is... Perfict!!!
JoyUs
The land we live on is being transfered to a trust for its protection from individual disires... -
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Re: Earth Changes
Wed, November 9, 2005 - 6:57 PMOK - your response jives with me more or less - i.e. if you want to attain ultimate fulfillment, you need to let go of your desires. The thing I don't see though is how you can determine another's actions of survival/sustainability as coming from a place of desire or of desirelessness - just as no-one can know your consciousness in planting trees except for you, why do u assume that another's actions towards survival are fear/desire-based? and even if they are, what's wrong with NOT becoming completely enlightened, having some desires - like for the survival of humanity in a sustainable way?
The devil's advocate,
Jeremy -
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Re: Earth Changes
Fri, November 11, 2005 - 9:57 AMYou can tell if someone is living in illusion if they are affected by the outcome of their actions... Once you Re-Member youself to the only Member of the Universe you will still work and things will go on on the physical level, you may even be involved in big projects for the betterment of the world... The difference is that there is no longer a concern for the outcome of anything... for the future of the body, mind and all things... Freedom from the attatchments to results and fruits of action... All action is spontanious and effortless, oposed to calculated, difficult, and egoic effort...
No assumptions... and if they happen, there is no judgment of right or wrong... no effort to eradicate assumptions... just the awarness that the mind is up to what it does, creating illusions, and then just let it all fall away... Reality remains when all else is dropped away... This is true for desires and fears as well... there is no effort to eradicate desires, just seeing them for what they are will let them disolve back into the nothing from which they came...
"completly enlightned" ? do you think such a thing exists? partial enlightment? thats like Partial Unconditional Love. Partial happieness, partial freedom or partial peace... There is no such thing...
as far as sacraficing Total Freedom, Peace, Joy for an earthly desire like the sustainablitly of Humanity, there is somthing you should concider..
At some point there was no life on this planet... Now there appears to be... At some point the sun is going to burn off its hydrogen fuel and implode then explode into a red gian star, siziling all life and the whole planet... The extenction of Life on this planet is inevatable...
How far into the future are you concerned for humanity? Years, decades, centuries, Milinimun, How many generations are you truly concerned for?
Thanks for playing the Devils advocate Jearmy... I have these same thoghts in my head as my mind still trys to find a loophole to these Truths... There is a really good book that holds these teachings in the most clear way... But you have to practice, letting go, and Being in the sence I Am, not just reading another self help book...
I AM THAT By Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
www.realization.org/page/topic...gadatta.htm
Check out the site (I have not but will too)...
May Peace Be with You... Cuz it alwayse is... May You Be in THat Peace...
Just a piece of the Peace... JoyUs -
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Re: Earth Changes
Fri, November 11, 2005 - 10:56 AMWell said, Thanks to you also, Joyus, for being a champion of Oneness and living the questions...e
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Re: Earth Changes
Fri, November 11, 2005 - 11:40 AMCool - I do not agree on the partial enlightenment issue though - many have told of their progress through different stages of enlightenment, associated with different levels of happiness, freedom, love, desires, etc. And some have even told of the fact that there is an infinite progression toward the infinite - i.e. that it never ends.
I think for me, since I am in this world now, and I do care about humanity, and it is in the realm of possibilities that the world can go on existing in a habitable way for a long time, I will go on with efforts at sustainability and survivability. In some sense at least I am not attached to the outcome - I feel driven to the actions regardless of outcome. What I mean to say is that even if humanity as a species doesn't survive, I will feel satisfaction in having done everything I could holistically do in the benefit of humanity and the Earth. If forces beyond individual/group control do not allow the continuance of humanity, I feel I can acquiesce to such a result - but I do not see such a result as being imminent, and my perception is that we do have influence on the result. therefore, in addition to meditation to realize oneness and true essence, I feel the best use I can make of my time on this earth is to work in this direction - whether it be adding joy and love, living simply, educating, planting trees, and perhaps creating shelters to survive possible changes.
Jeremy -
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Re: Earth Changes
Fri, November 11, 2005 - 4:35 PMThe thing that evolves is the personality... Not You... Your personality becomes more patient, tolerant, easy going, more intiuition, more seratonin in the blood makes you feel happy... But that is not you... these things are still in flux... You are the consciousness the witness of the the flux... this witness of the flux does not improve... You may relax into the witness more and more freequently witch gives the impression that you are becoming more something, but you will see apon sincere investagation that the state is just more constant... it is not being improved apon or getting better... Does this make sence?
You made a statements that need more investigation... Like, 'since i am in the world'... are you? if you look closer the world is in You... all happens Inside your awarness... if somthing happens outside your awarness you do not know... like if no one ever told you about global warming and the effects you would not know... The world is happing inside your awarness.... this is the key... no awareness no world... the world changes but the awarness is allways there, unchanged...
check it out. go deeper into Being beyond the ideas of your mind... You mind works in funny little english sounds that no one else can hear for some reason, why do you invest your identity to these funny little sounds called thoughts, in english?...
Your mind will fight because these truths are a threat to your illisonary identity... and thats scarry... but see the mind in its attempt to hold onto openions and realize that your are watching this happen, come back over and over to this sence of watching things happen, the sence of I Am... Your experience will quickly validify these truths...
the only requirement is sincere effort to find the truth... which is the opposite of holding onto openions...
Who Are You? I Am.
JoyUs -
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Re: Earth Changes
Sun, November 13, 2005 - 6:49 PMI AM as well, but I also sense there is a purpose to this Earthly experience, and even though the earth will eventually cease to be, we have much time for souls to continue to grow through an earthly experience - or perhaps, in your terms, for personalities to continue to give way to the experience of their souls. -
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Re: Earth Changes
Mon, November 14, 2005 - 8:49 AM(truth may soud harsh)
You imagine a purpose with your mind...
Where do these images come from? where do they go? who is the one imagining and who is the one listing to the rammble of the mind?
Insted of just believing that you are your mind, body, opinions, thoughts and imagination, look deeper to these questions... Find Yourself...
Discard that which is false, that which changes, and what is left is Truth...
Even if you there was a purpose to earthly existence do you think your mind is a clear enough tool to put it into words, and thus base your identity around?
I Hope not, for if this is true you have been suckered by your mind deeper than truth can reach you in this instant...
Dont be a sucker, dont even listen to me, LOOK FOR YOURSELF...
Ask WHO AM I? and if your mind thinks it has an answer, look deeper... allow your, mind to quiet by self reflection into this question and the inner truth, the highest truth shall reviel itself... all that is needed is an ernest 'desire' for freedom and truth... if you think you have all the answers, you will find nothing but your own illusion, unfulfilling as ever, dependant on the fufillment of your desires... Nothing worth definding...
They say that you only surrender when you are surrounded and out of bullets...
I told this to my land partner and he said that if you wait untill your out of bullets its because your thick headed...
Laughing Without Sound
I AM
JoyUs P
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